It strikes me that the common factor in Monbiot's statements about poetry is how extreme they are - but also a particular kind of rhetorical extremity, more habitual than anything else, the voice of someone who has been shouting so long they haven't noticed that it's also possible to talk or whisper. What becomes obvious about this habitual extremity when applied to, say, poetry is its fundamental unseriousness. It's possible to make outrageous claims for (or against) poetry in a serious way, but it doesn't produce sentences like these.
Dougald – rhetorical extremity, yes! I suppose there can be case for it as a writing tactic to grab the reader’s attention, but then you need to go somewhere more nuanced. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anywhere politically nuanced to go to in the present moment from observations about pastoral poetry and its oversimplification of agrarianism, but there are plenty of people happy to lap up that story.
Nick – thanks for that on Nate’s podcast. I need to catch up on them – he’s always worth a listen. In relation to his ‘Walrus’ list, I guess I’d subscribe to moderate versions of (1) and (2), not so much the other ones. Not bad, I submit, for a sometime ‘lefty/progressive’!
Mike – thanks, very interesting points on Holly McNish and ‘active’ belonging. I hope to write something more about that soon. I agree with you/her, but I also think people inevitably seek more abstract forms of symbolic belonging. Wherein great danger lies – we need to make sure we don’t end up worshipping monsters.
Barbara/Mark – as with the contours of wider collapse, it’s likely only possible to see where the point of no return was with hindsight, but yes from my distant vantage point it’s plausible that the US republic is already a goner. I have a discussion about Trump and kingship in the new book, drawing on wider analyses of kingship … I’m a bit uncertain about it, but hopefully it might generate interesting discussion.
Many thanks for the post. Love the discovery about Monbiot's love of poetry - lol.
Ref the far right-far left debate, I came across some very illuminating input on the matter from Nat Hagens that might be of interest to readers. He describes what he called the Walrus movement (lefty/progressive types) and flags a few blind spots that "they" have.
Ah, I've now listened to Nate's pod - much to agree with in it, but I now understand why I'm somewhat out of alignment with him on points 1 and 2. Maybe I'll write a post about it - it raises some interesting issues
I would very much welcome that Chris. There are some interesting bits in there indeed. One point of note relating to number 4, on my mind at the moment is the potential for our species to live nicely with each other and the earth. Should we look to indigenous people (I've just read Robin Wall Kimmerer's charming little book suggesting that we nurture gifting economies) or take on the gist of E O Wilson's comment: Communism. Great idea. Wrong species.
Great to have found you (and Romanticon) Chris, via a reader on Bella Caledonia. I read Clive Lewis's reflection on his friends participation on the 'Unite the Kingdom!' march too. I read interested in his friends idea that he was in search of 'belonging'. After I listened to the poet Holly McNish talk about the idea of belonging. Her refrain was - in your search for 'belonging' did you participate in anything? Did you run a youth club, join a Men's Shed group, volunteer for anything in your community? Her point, and it seemed reasonable was that 'belonging' isn't a passive affair, and if your only action to seek 'belonging' was to go on a Tommy Robinson march then that is highly questionable. I'd have to agree.
Your comments on flags is interesting. Outside of very niche sub cultures the Union Jack in Scotland is not seen as a sign of unity, certainly for people under 60.
Trump is acting like a despotic king Canute, thinking he can turn back the tide of overshoot with executive orders and by putting ass-licking toadies in crucial ministerial positions.
A big thumbs up to Soil and Soul and Alistair McIntosh, as well as his other writings. I have been fortunate to be in meetings with him a few times and conversations have been very stimulating. He also co-wrote and excellent book with Matt Carmichael on Spiritual Activism.
The Honest Sorcerer strikes again, peak oil, peak diesel, peak natural gas and peak uncoventional oil, all slightly different things, all have passed or about to pass:
It strikes me that the common factor in Monbiot's statements about poetry is how extreme they are - but also a particular kind of rhetorical extremity, more habitual than anything else, the voice of someone who has been shouting so long they haven't noticed that it's also possible to talk or whisper. What becomes obvious about this habitual extremity when applied to, say, poetry is its fundamental unseriousness. It's possible to make outrageous claims for (or against) poetry in a serious way, but it doesn't produce sentences like these.
Thanks for the comments. Briefly,
Dougald – rhetorical extremity, yes! I suppose there can be case for it as a writing tactic to grab the reader’s attention, but then you need to go somewhere more nuanced. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anywhere politically nuanced to go to in the present moment from observations about pastoral poetry and its oversimplification of agrarianism, but there are plenty of people happy to lap up that story.
Nick – thanks for that on Nate’s podcast. I need to catch up on them – he’s always worth a listen. In relation to his ‘Walrus’ list, I guess I’d subscribe to moderate versions of (1) and (2), not so much the other ones. Not bad, I submit, for a sometime ‘lefty/progressive’!
Yep, I’m at the PPP event in Bath on Thursday. If you’re near Bath, you may be near Frome – so there’s also the local book launch on 14 October https://www.tickettailor.com/events/frometowncouncil/1861346
Mike – thanks, very interesting points on Holly McNish and ‘active’ belonging. I hope to write something more about that soon. I agree with you/her, but I also think people inevitably seek more abstract forms of symbolic belonging. Wherein great danger lies – we need to make sure we don’t end up worshipping monsters.
Barbara/Mark – as with the contours of wider collapse, it’s likely only possible to see where the point of no return was with hindsight, but yes from my distant vantage point it’s plausible that the US republic is already a goner. I have a discussion about Trump and kingship in the new book, drawing on wider analyses of kingship … I’m a bit uncertain about it, but hopefully it might generate interesting discussion.
Many thanks for the post. Love the discovery about Monbiot's love of poetry - lol.
Ref the far right-far left debate, I came across some very illuminating input on the matter from Nat Hagens that might be of interest to readers. He describes what he called the Walrus movement (lefty/progressive types) and flags a few blind spots that "they" have.
1. Profit and extraction are bad
2. The main problem is capitalism
3. Authoritarianism is a right wing phenomenon
4. A fair society means equal outcomes
5. Fossil fuel companies are to blame
6. Renewables can replace fossils fuels
7. We can print our way out
8. Reality is whatever we say it is
9. Human rights are unbounded.
Full details: 40 min podcast here. https://natehagens.substack.com/p/key-blindspots-of-the-walrus-movement
Wierdly the movement already has a website! https://www.thewalrusmovement.com
Ah, I've now listened to Nate's pod - much to agree with in it, but I now understand why I'm somewhat out of alignment with him on points 1 and 2. Maybe I'll write a post about it - it raises some interesting issues
I would very much welcome that Chris. There are some interesting bits in there indeed. One point of note relating to number 4, on my mind at the moment is the potential for our species to live nicely with each other and the earth. Should we look to indigenous people (I've just read Robin Wall Kimmerer's charming little book suggesting that we nurture gifting economies) or take on the gist of E O Wilson's comment: Communism. Great idea. Wrong species.
I saw that too. Makes some good points. I still dont understand the name though.
This sounds like the dark side of the ecology movement
Great to have found you (and Romanticon) Chris, via a reader on Bella Caledonia. I read Clive Lewis's reflection on his friends participation on the 'Unite the Kingdom!' march too. I read interested in his friends idea that he was in search of 'belonging'. After I listened to the poet Holly McNish talk about the idea of belonging. Her refrain was - in your search for 'belonging' did you participate in anything? Did you run a youth club, join a Men's Shed group, volunteer for anything in your community? Her point, and it seemed reasonable was that 'belonging' isn't a passive affair, and if your only action to seek 'belonging' was to go on a Tommy Robinson march then that is highly questionable. I'd have to agree.
Your comments on flags is interesting. Outside of very niche sub cultures the Union Jack in Scotland is not seen as a sign of unity, certainly for people under 60.
On a lighter note, if you're anywhere near Bath, come and see Chris and his new book at the People Planet Pint. 2nd Oct. https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/bath-small99s-people-planet-pinttm-sustainability-meetup-tickets-1632754706279?aff=erelexpmlt
Wish I could be there instead of in the Perishing Republic of the USA.
Is it really a republic anymore?
Trump is acting like a despotic king Canute, thinking he can turn back the tide of overshoot with executive orders and by putting ass-licking toadies in crucial ministerial positions.
https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/oa-edit/10.4324/9781003466109-10/exploring-small-scale-farming-ecological-livelihoods-galina-kallio-eeva-houtbeckers
A chapter in a recently published open access book exploring small scale farming as ecological livelihood in a Minority World context.
A big thumbs up to Soil and Soul and Alistair McIntosh, as well as his other writings. I have been fortunate to be in meetings with him a few times and conversations have been very stimulating. He also co-wrote and excellent book with Matt Carmichael on Spiritual Activism.
The Honest Sorcerer strikes again, peak oil, peak diesel, peak natural gas and peak uncoventional oil, all slightly different things, all have passed or about to pass:
https://thehonestsorcerer.substack.com/p/the-electrification-of-road-transport
"The future will be increasingly localized, with much less product variants and with much simple lifestyles."
Sounds like he's reading Chris' mind :)